Prakash Sangam:
Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Tantra’s Mantra, where we go behind and beyond the tech news headlines. I’m your host Prakash Sangam, founder and principal at Tantra Analyst. Today, we will talk about two Lenovo events that were back-to-back, happened in Seattle.
Those were Lenovo Tech World and Global Analyst Conference. The Tech World was a one-day public event for invited media analysts, partners and so on. The Analyst Conference was, of course, NDA only. It was a two-day event for select industry analysts, which I participated. The events featured high-profile Lenovo speakers, including the CEO, YY, the heads of business units, and public personalities, both online and in-person.
The most notable invitee was NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang. Obviously, AI was the focus, which is the case nowadays with all the conferences. But Lenovo focused on a few specific things, like hybrid AI, which is a combination of AI in the cloud, on the devices, edge, and everywhere else.
I think they made a good, compelling argument on why and how they are well-placed to address that opportunity from a product, technology, and services perspective.
And also they introduced a new automotive platform working with NVIDIA and also a NVIDIA Blackwell-based system. So all of them were very interesting. We will discuss all of that and analyze these issues, these topics, I would say. I have my friend and fellow analyst, Leonard Lee of Next Curve with me now. Leonard is a well-known figure to all of our audiences. He’s regularly been on the show before. Leonard, welcome to the show.
Leonard Lee:
Thanks Prakash, good to be on again. It was great spending time with you in Bellevue.
Prakash Sangam:
Yeah, it did. It was rainy and cloudy, but we had a really good time there. A lot of good sessions, and Lenovo guys did not let us breathe at all, right? It was so packed event.
Leonard Lee:
Well, it was hard to tell if it was raining or not because we were indoors all the time. Like you said, they had us on a very tight schedule.
Prakash Sangam:
There was a lot of content, a lot of interaction, so yeah. It was all good, very informative. So I mean, the analyst conference was really good, very open discussion, open to suggestions and so on, so really lovely.
Okay, so Leonard is an accomplished analyst. He’ll give details on his research areas and where to find all of his research and content towards the end of the show.
So let’s get started. Okay, so the first question, so what is your overall impression of the event?
Leonard Lee:
It was my first time going to or attending Tech World. Usually, you know, I have a conflict. And so I’m not able to make it. And this is the first time that I was able to make it. And fortunately, they combined it with the Global Industry Analyst Conference. And that made it feasible because usually that is held at a separate time, separate venue.
And it’s only recently that they’ve had all of the, the business groups together. So SSG, which is the Solutions and Services Group, IDG, which is the Intelligent Devices Group, which is their largest division. That’s the business that has the PC XR, you know, both commercial as well as consumer, at largest part of their business.
And then they have the Infrastructure Solutions Group, which is ISG. This is only the second time that they’ve held the analyst event with, let’s call it, a one Lenovo focus, right? Or scope, right?
So this is, you know, just a second iteration of a program format, I should say, that is new.
Prakash Sangam:
Yeah, yeah, interesting. And this is my first event for both of them. Both the Tech World and the analyst event. I thought it was very informative. It was jam-packed with information, a lot of content, some of which we can talk, some which we can’t. But it was really informative. And then I want to add that IDG also includes their smartphone products, right?
The Motorola smartphones, which is a small but interesting part of the business. They actually have a lot of things in that business group, you know, workplace technologies, you know, displays, the list goes on and on and on, you know, yeah. Yeah, and the one Lenovo thing, they kept on emphasizing that, which I think was good. And it was not just saying, so the way they presented the solutions group and the services group, I think it was kind of well-rounded, they’re connected, it’s not silos, but they are into working and other things.
So we’ll talk a little bit more once we go into the discussion, but yeah, that’s good. So this hybrid AI, I think it makes sense, right? Because obviously not all data can go to where AI is now in the cloud, it makes sense to bring AI also to where data is, and then when you have these disjointed things, things may not work well.
So if you have a hybrid approach, which looks at AI in the cloud, on the edge, on the devices, as well as in between on the edge cloud, which I think that’s one point that I have that did not discuss too much. I think there are lots of assets in the edge cloud as well, but nonetheless, they focused on these agents and so on. And they are very well placed to exploit that opportunity because they have solutions on the server side, of course, as well on the edge and in between on the edge server side.
Leonard Lee:
Yeah. Of all of the tech providers out there, they have the broadest portfolio. I mean, there’s only a few companies out there that have the breadth that Lenovo has. And I think that’s what makes them unique. Everyone else has kind of shed off bits and pieces, right? Like with HP, you have the laptop and let’s call it workspace equipment, part of the business in HPQ.
And then you have Hewlett-Packard or HPE Enterprises that does all the server cloud edge infrastructure type stuff, right? Software security and I think even, you know, compared to Dell, you know, they’re most prominent competitors. They’re very different and they really stand out with mobile. And you brought up mobile, right?
I mean, there’s this moniker that they have is like that they are pocket to cloud. that I think is important in the context of hybrid AI, where a lot of people think about hybrid AI as AI either on device or in the cloud. But then there’s this whole continuum, like you were saying, Lenovo is huge on edge infrastructure, right?
So like you were saying, whether it’s a gateway to an edge server, they provide a whole suite of capabilities there, as well as services and all the capabilities to actually deploy that for an enterprise. And that makes everything interesting, right? And obviously with the PC, with all the AI PC talk and the generative AI super computing, where Lenovo is really a leader, and they didn’t really emphasize that that much, which always makes me scratch my head, right?
Because the two players out there that have probably the most impressive and long legacy in super computing are HP and Lenovo.And with the cold, everyone now is talking about liquid, cooled cooling, right? Well, you know, Lenovo is kind of a pioneer in that whole space, right? And now everyone else is kind of bringing that into the fold. But you know, you heard about Neptune and the whole legacy that they have in supercomputing in terms of number of supercomputing environments that they’ve put up their top of the list.
Prakash Sangam:
And it was not just vision, they gave some specific details on how this heavy day is going to work, right? With the enterprise agents and then personal agents working together and so on. So there was a detailed discussion, I think you were there on as well, right? How the architecture of this hybrid is going to work.
I think that was interesting. So it’s not just a thought, they are actually working through and trying to implement it as we speak. Yeah, I mean, let me ask you this because I know this is your first time at their analyst events.
Leonard Lee:
What’s your impression about their level of innovation and exploration compared to others that you’re seeing that are playing in the same game?
Prakash Sangam:
I think they are very specific on where their focus is. For example, they said we are not doing anything on the model side. So it’s purely we work with our US partners and the AI software partners. Like they said, their initial agents were using Meta’s open Lama model. So they are very specific there, and they’re looking at implementing these on their products, as well as on to their services.
And they were very focused on enterprises for AI, right? And of course, there is AI PC, but specifically from services perspective, which I think makes sense. And the analyst event really allowed the level of in-depth information that they gave. You usually don’t get that much in-depth information, unless you go to a developer conference of a major player. So I really loved it.
So yeah. And then I think during the analyst, they talked about eating their own dog food, right?
So using their own AI solutions and products for, they are a large enterprise. So using for their own use and getting the benefits from there and showing it as a showcase to their customers. I think I really like that it is not just they’re trying to sell some vaporware vision, but they’re saying, Oh, well, these are things that we actually took it to heart. We worked on our own company and these are learnings that you can take from, right?
Leonard Lee:
Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things that folks will notice is they they learn more about the company because I think they’re really well known for their PCs. Obviously, the ThinkPad is a huge brand. For them.And, you know, when it comes to, you know, like commercial or enterprise laptops, I mean, that’s pretty much what everyone thinks of, right? But yeah, I think they tend to be quite exploratory and curious, you know?
One of the things that always sticks out for me is the work that Brian Leonard does, and he runs the Innovation Center and doing a lot of the design work with materials and, you know, colors. I think they’ve really done wonders with Motorola, where they’ve created a distinct identity just from aesthetics.
But then also, so, you know, there’s that level, but then also, like what you’re saying about AI, they’re not going to the level of building their own models, but they are positioning models like Moto AI to drive unique Lenovo experiences. And so, we’re seeing a lot of this with the Chinese brands.
So, when we were at IFA, we saw that with Honor, right? Honor also is taking a similar approach.
And then, you know, obviously, this is a lot of this activity kind of mirrors what Apple has done with Apple Intelligence because that’s what Apple Intelligence is. It’s their own model and AI that’s geared towards shaping a unique, let’s say, Apple experience. Lenovo is doing that.
But again, going back to Pocket to Cloud, they’re really thinking about this from the Pocket to the Cloud. How do we provide the tooling, but then also the experiential harmony across, you know, the different ways you can engage with AI applications and interact with them. I think that’s one of the things that you can clearly see that they are investing in. And, you know, I think one of the, another good example of creating sort of this Lenovo experience is the work that they do with Smart Connect, right?
Prakash Sangam:
Yeah. Yeah, of course. That, I mean, you know, and also bringing Intel in through Aura edition on the AIPCs. Exactly. Basically, providing, I mean, you know, since they have bridged a performance gap with Apple, so basically, I think the next opportunity is to have offering both on the consumer as well as on the enterprise side to kind of compete directly with Apple. See how that goes, but it’s very aspirational for sure.
And also, I liked, you know, the one, the innovation word that we went to in Berlin a few weeks ago.
It was squarely on AIPCs, but in this event in Tech World and the, in the analyst conference, EIPC was still important, but it was just one part. They focused on a lot of enterprise solutions as well as the services, of course, and in the products as well. I think that was good. So it was, it gave kind of a full 360 degree view rather than one.
Leonard Lee:
Yeah, I agree.
Prakash Sangam:
And this entering automotive with NVIDIA. So that was interesting, right? I don’t know. Some might say they are late to the market because automotive, SOCs and ADAS and other things like bringing tech to automotive has been around for some time. Some might say they’re a little bit late, but again, the whole industry itself is starting up now. So I wouldn’t call it very late. The industry is still evolving. So, and they’re going with NVIDIA, which is another interesting choice, and a choice of vendor. What do you think about that?
Leonard Lee:
Yeah, I mean, I think they did lead in with NVIDIA, but I did have a chance to speak with Jung Rui, who is the SVP of emerging technologies. And so he was a former CTO. So now he has, I guess, the fun job.
Prakash Sangam:
In his words, right? That’s what he said.
Leonard Lee:
You know, there’s a new person in that role, Tolga, Kurt Togol, who is the new CTO. Really, really, really amazing guy, actually. Former NASA research scientist. I had a chance to talk with him as well. He’s a really, really cool guy.
But, yeah, leading in with NVIDIA, but one of the things that Mr. Rui made sure that I understood is that they’re taking an open approach in terms of partnerships. And, you know, I agree with you, man. I initially thought, wow, these guys are late to the game. But here the reality is the auto industry and their digital drive is kind of stalled, right?
Although, you know, we hear a lot of good news coming out of Qualcomm, where, you know, Qualcomm and the automotive team have really made a lot of traction capitalizing on this, you know, I think it’s like a 30 billion, 35, probably more, you know, design wind pipeline. The way that we should look at the automotive industry and the digital, quote-unquote, transformation drive is that it’s stalled a bit, right? You know, this movement toward SDV and re-architecting the vehicle toward zonal architectures, that has really slowed down quite a bit.
So I was having a chat with, you know, Yong. And yeah, we came to this odd place in our conversation where, you know, we were talking about how this might actually be a good time.
But they’re very, the way they’re thinking about themselves is not as a tier one or a tier zero or a tier two or what have you. They’re really looking at themselves as a tier one point five as I said integrators.
But sort of that, they are system engineers. Yeah, they’ll take like a digital chassis, if you will, or whether it’s a framework from NVIDIA, or it’s a framework from NXP or Qualcomm. And they make, they actually implement the chassis. They design it, they implement it in service to the OEMs, right?
And that might entail a wide range of partnerships. And so in that way, you know, we kind of need to think about that whole Lenovo automotive play a bit differently, right? Because I think they’ve done some pretty good thinking around how they’re going to position themselves and where they’re going to plug in more to, not only move the ball because the ball needs to move, but bringing Lenovo’s expertise to the table to also create a nice business for themselves, right?
Prakash Sangam:
Good, yeah. And I agree that they say it’s kind of open approach they have and NVIDIA is the, probably the first iteration of it. And they did show a slide with, you know, Qualcomm and others as their potential partner. So, and the, and the, I think the, this, you know, being a one, a tier 1.5, more of a system integrator. It’s kind of a different approach, right?
So, and, and obviously, it’ll be one for China market and the other for non-China. I don’t know how, how that they’re going to do it.
Leonard Lee:
It’s a, yeah, probably not. That’s what was not really clear. But that was the other thing that we talked about because in the China market, there are many Silicon players that are offering their own, let’s say, form of a digital chassis. It’s a pretty, pretty crowded market from the Silicon standpoint.
And like, you know, like components or modules standpoint, ECU standpoint. But again, I think they might find home anywhere just simply because of their, their particular positioning, right?
As like you were, you mentioned, you know, this open systems integration focused or systems engineering focused, right? Because I think it’s more than just integrating things. They’re engineering.
Prakash Sangam:
Correct. You basically design and, you know, taking stuff from different vendors and make sure you first design and integrate and then deliver.
Leonard Lee:
Right. That’s what some OEMs are doing. They’re mixing and matching. They’re not going all in with one system, right? But traditionally, I mean, tier ones were not doing at a system level, but at a subsystem level, right? So, but now with the domain architecture, I don’t think that alone will work because having these hundreds of ECUs is not going to work, which means you have a different approach, I think.
And again, that whole re-architecting is like really net new, right? That’s a huge, huge revamping of the vehicular architecture, right?
Prakash Sangam:
In terms of stalling, I don’t know whether I would say it has stalled. I mean, it is a slow-moving industry, but it is moving slowly in my view. I know the domain kind of approach, it’s been talked about for some time, but everybody’s, I think, is at a different state in that evolution.
And it also depends on whether you are a top-tier OEM versus not, right? If you’re top-tier, then you might be a little further ahead because you have the capital and the margins to invest in all of that.
But if you are not, then you got to be careful on how much all these new things you bring into the system.
And also overall, when EV was happening, it was much easier because it was more of an electric and electronic domain rather than mechanical domain. But that kind of has slowed down the electrification now. There’s a lot of interest outside China and hybrids. And some OEMs are starting to make IC engine cars and so on. Yeah, that I think has muddled the water a little bit.
Leonard Lee:
Yeah, I mean, it’s certainly not moving as quickly as folks anticipated a few years ago. So, you know, and there’s no doubt that, I mean, let’s put it this way, if things went the way that people thought it was going to go, all the chip makers would have a much larger automotive business at this point.
Prakash Sangam:
Agreed. And I know we would have had millions of level four cars on the street today, right? Which is not the case now.
Leonard Lee:
Oh, yeah, on level six. I mean, they probably like invent something. That’s like the robo taxi stuff, right? It’s predictive, not even autonomous. It’s predictive driving.
Prakash Sangam:
Yeah, correct. So, and then I think another issue that they addressed head on, which I liked as well is, I mean, on all of the analysts’ mind is there’s lots of talk of AI, there’s a lot of investment going, but the ROI, and I know as we all know, almost 90 percent, even more of all the AI projects that enterprise are looking at are either in POC, proof of concept or trial stage.
And there is this year of uncertainty on how many of them will go from that stage to commercial deployment, right? And what will be the ROI and other stuff. So with that, I think they talked about using these for their own operations and having a suite of applications which makes sense for enterprises and that and some of the learnings from their own implementation. I think that makes their approach and the thing they’re working on and saying more believable rather than just vaporware.
Leonard Lee:
Yeah, you’re right. And this is not just unique to Lenovo. We hear it everywhere. It’s where it’s ROI.
I think a large part of the challenge is that a lot of the, what you hear quite a bit about is how the compute that is being sold. Actually in the hyper, the generative AI super computing cloud.
A lot of that is either sovereign, we’re hearing more and more about sovereign AI.
A lot of that is government funded, obviously, for purposes of a localized large language model.
Then there’s, you hear a lot about research, development, model building. I think we’re still, even, you know, a lot of, I’m pretty much, this is a common theme. There’s challenges finding the return on investment on actual end user use cases and applications.
And yeah, Lenovo has the SSG organization. There’s like literally a whole section. It’s run by Linda Yao. It’s focused on accelerating AI adoption. And I think, you know, the way that we should look at AI adoption is that generative AI adoption, right? And one of the big problems is everyone just says, AI, AI, AI. There’s a lot of different kinds of AI, right?
But the thing that everybody actually, quite honestly, needs to sell, right, is generative AI. We’ve already tried to sell, as an industry, we’ve already tried to sell and to a certain degree, been successful in selling certain varieties of AI.
Prakash Sangam:
Correct, yeah. I mean, the first level of generative, but the regular AI, which is kind of smartness and intelligence, and first level of machine learning and deep learning, that kind of is, I agree that people are convinced and there are a lot of use cases they’re adopting.
Leonard Lee:
But I think the larger issue on ROI is on generative AI. And to be frank, that’s where most of the investment is going on as well. So naturally, there is a lot of questions on ROI. Because that’s the investment that needs to yield an ROI, right?And that’s been elusive so far. But I think fundamentally, Lenovo and Linda’s team is really focused on just helping a lot of their clients just figure out what quote unquote AI is. And in particular, generative AI.
Prakash Sangam:
And yeah, I agree with you.
Leonard Lee:
One of the benefits they’re bringing to the table, and they’re aiming and are bringing to table are blueprints to help these customers think through, okay, what are some of the potential applications that may be valuable in certain scenarios or aspects of their business? And then help them map out, where do we actually start in deploying the stuff?
You know, operationally, what do we need to get up and going in order to not only implement these generative AI solutions, but also operate them, right? We don’t hear a lot of people talk about how we can implement it. Very few people talk about the long life cycle of actually managing these things.
Prakash Sangam:
Yeah. Which also have a tremendous cost that hasn’t been talked about. And, you know, I think when you look at what Lenovo is doing, is they’re trying to answer those questions and then help their customers with that ROI equation so that they can actually solve it. And yeah, it’s kind of, you know, people before investing and buying stuff, they know, okay, these are the things that have actually worked in a typical large enterprise environment. So I think that’s a lot of value there.
So moving on to the phones. I mean, to be honest, I haven’t looked at Motorola phones that much because my primary focus was at least US and, you know, they’re not in the premium segment. But I think this was the sessions were a revelation to me. So there’s a lot of goodness there and a lot of good things happening. I also liked Sergio’s direct clear thinking, right?
So he was very specific and also liked his open answers as well. He was not mincing his words. So that was an interesting session for me. And a lot of good things happening there. So right now, their focus is for premium segment outside US. But if they position well, they might have a good chance to be third option in US in the premium segment.
Right now, they’re mostly in the prepaid and so on. But they have a good foldable product. So if they can use that platform and try to show that they are a candidate for a premium segment.
Leonard Lee:
Yeah, that’s one of the things you learn about Sergio. He’s super pragmatic. And that’s kind of rare, I think. I think he understands where Motorola is positioned at the moment. And he has a long-term play. And it seems like YY, as well as Luka, are totally bought into this strategy that Sergio has. But yeah, he makes tough choices.
He says no a lot. And I think that’s a really good indicator. I mean, I have several conversations with him. He said, no, I don’t think we’re going to do that. We’re going to focus on that. And then, you know, he has a rationale. But that’s smart. But I also think that they’ve benefited tremendously by building a brand, capitalizing on a lot of the Motorola legacy and then fully modernizing it very well.
I have to admit. And, you know, their phones, in terms of going back to styling and the work that Brian Leonard does, I think they’ve done a really, really compelling job. I think they outdo some of the bigger names in terms of putting together an aesthetic experience. Their phones are really well made. I’m testing out a couple of them and they’re very durable. But not only that, they just look really good. Do you know what I’m saying?
Prakash Sangam:
Yeah, so I haven’t used one. Maybe I’ll try their foldable because I’ve been using it for a long time.
So and also, I mean, I talked to Sergio as well. I think one possible opportunity, which I think is large is they use their enterprise leadership and push through phones for enterprise use cases. You know, in a very nice integration with all of the enterprise systems that they have.
And you know, that’s another interesting opportunity which I pointed to them. They should exploit, rather than just only looking at the consumer and where it takes time to build the brand and the recognition, right? Especially in the US where the prices are not a major concern because of all the price plans that the operators have.
Leonard Lee:
Yeah, they definitely have an advantage with enterprise and they did lead in, you know, with smart
Things, right? And that really, that first showcase of the cross device integration and seamless experiences and with Smart Connect, I mean, I think they’ve done a really great job.
Prakash Sangam:
You know, Samsung and others are there. They’re kind of doing the same thing.
Leonard Lee:
But I think my impression is that Lenovo has really dug deep. And has clearly recognized the importance of having a branded experience. And I think that’s where they’ve created pretty, done a pretty good job of creating that Lenovo abstraction layer on top.
You know what I’m saying? Where, whether it’s, you know, Intel or a Unison or it’s something else, right? It’s like, you know, Qualcomm’s thing or it’s Microsoft’s thing, that’s all abstracted and really stitched well together across, you know, what they’re calling Smart Connect. And it works really well.
I mean, you know, I tried iPhone mirroring. you know, the latest updates to Apple stuff. And you know what? I was actually kind of disappointed. And I have that reference, what Lenovo has done and Motorola. And I have to admit, they did a number of things better. I’m more on the sad list right now.
Prakash Sangam:
Samsung ecosystem there, I think the working your phone, your watch and laptop. Of course, there is a huge amount of scope to even do it for and improve it further. But the way it works pretty nice so far. But I mean, I agree that there is tons of opportunity to do it even more seamless.
That’s one. And then because of their enterprise, for example, running enterprise applications like Salesforce and others, make the whole enterprise workflow for either small, medium, or even large enterprises very seamless if you’re using Lenovo servers and Lenovo phones in the employees and so on. So it’s even more opportunity for Lenovo than regular.
Prakash Sangam:
Yeah, one of the things I really like about the way Lenovo is in particular, thinking about AI in the context of seamless integrations is the cross-device, seamless, or harmonious AI experience, which is what Brian Leonard’s presentation to us talked about, but it is also just has been part of the way that Lenovo is thinking about the Lenovo slash Motorola experience.
I mean, obviously, it would be nice if those things were to the same thing, but at the moment, they’re not. But regardless, if you can have that seamless experience, beginning with the AI, which is a big problem, it’s not an easy problem to solve, right? Then you’ve cracked a really important nut.
And I think that is something that Lenovo is pursuing, and it’s a testament to the curiosity that you see with these guys. You know, this innovative streak that they have in their corporate personality.
Prakash Sangam:
So the last question, So the announcement with Nvidia, and this Hybrid AI Advantage, they also announced SC777, the water-cooled Blackwell system. That was interesting. I mean, it was a very good proof point for this Neptune water-cooled system using the latest NVIDIA GPU, right?
Leonard Lee:
Yeah. Like we mentioned earlier, this is not new stuff for Lenovo, right? They’ve been doing direct cooling for a long time. They probably have arguably the industry’s most advanced, you know, water-cooled server platform. Yeah, this is not new for them, which is like, in a way, that’s the good news for Lenovo, right?
It’s like, oh yeah, we put this out and guess what? Everyone is, you know, kind of scurrying to get their liquid-cooled game on. But yeah, it’s all about direct at the moment. But I was, last year, I was at, actually it was almost two years ago, I was at the DreamWorks Studios, and I saw a, you know, I toured the studio’s rendering farm, which is basically all Neptune servers. It’s like all these GPUs stitched together to run all these rendering, massive rendering jobs. Yeah, it’s all water-cooled.
And it was weird because you walk in and it’s not that loud at all, right? Whereas if you go into a, you know, one that’s air-cooled and it’s like, air-cooled, we’ll see how it’s going to be.
Prakash Sangam:
Yeah. So, that’s all the time we had, Leonard. Any last-minute comments, things that we missed, and plug for your research and the content?
Leonard Lee:
We probably missed a lot of stuff. That’s why you should just pay attention to us and follow our research because we might drop some additional nuggets around this episode. But yeah, just check out my research at www.nextcurve.com.
I’m on LinkedIn. I also have a podcast that Prakash shows up on all the time. It’s called Rethink and it’s on YouTube, and you can also find us on Buzzsprout. I’m everywhere.
Prakash Sangam:
Yeah, you are, man, you are. All right. Thank you very much, Leonard. As usual, that was a great discussion. And thank you for sharing your insights.
Leonard Lee:
Absolutely. Thank you.
Prakash Sangam:
All right. So folks, that’s all we have for now. Hope you found this discussion informative and useful.
If so, please hit like and subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you’re listening this on.
I’ll be back soon with another episode, putting light on another interesting tech subject.
Bye-bye for now.
